The neanderthals don't know how to build anything,so they tear things down. ** -- MikeVT85 08/15/2017 6:55PMInsert a Link
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The neanderthals don't know how to build anything,so they tear things down. ** -- MikeVT85 08/15/2017 6:55PM My longest thread ever- and one like? C'mon, man! ** -- WestyHokie 08/15/2017 2:29PM Saw this quote today from 1984... seems to be playing out. -- HokieSignGuy 08/15/2017 1:05PM Re: Saw this quote today from 1984... seems to be playing out. -- VTSnake 08/15/2017 1:32PM So we have to pay attention so the latter does not happen. ** -- HokieSignGuy 08/15/2017 1:36PM Agreed. ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 2:13PM What you have to realize is the protests has ~5% to do with civil war... -- EDGEMAN 08/15/2017 12:37PM I pretty sure it is a Deep State conspiracy against Trump -- VaTechie 08/15/2017 3:41PM Never ask a question you don't want answered ** -- typed by ben 08/15/2017 3:55PM The mental gymnastics in this post are phenomenal -- VTSnake 08/15/2017 1:25PM Want to share what part you disagree with, constructively? ** -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 2:19PM Allow me. -- typed by ben 08/15/2017 3:05PM What's your "take" on this article in the Atlantic -- EDGEMAN 08/15/2017 3:58PM Here's my take: You have to defend yourself. -- typed by ben 08/15/2017 8:32PM Your synopsis of the events is accurate but I don't think it disputes what -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 3:35PM His spin is that the "Left" set it up as some kind of Nazi turkey shoot -- typed by ben 08/15/2017 4:03PM Just based on actual observations of what transpired. -- EDGEMAN 08/15/2017 2:16PM LMAO ** -- typed by ben 08/15/2017 2:24PM This has to be Poe's Law right? -- VTSnake 08/15/2017 2:29PM Extremely aggressive spin, especially to mention HFC. -- typed by ben 08/15/2017 3:18PM LMAO ** -- typed by ben 08/15/2017 1:09PM Col Allen West, a man I admire and respect, wrote a VERY insightful piece> -- HOKIERIT 08/15/2017 11:18AM Yes. It is awesome! ** -- HokieHeartNSoul 08/15/2017 6:15PM The paradox is the discussion is great, cognitive dissonance is good... -- `lag 08/15/2017 10:48AM ^^^Great post, must read. ** -- RTFC 08/15/2017 12:28PM The last sentence nails it -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 11:05AM Please keep repeating this ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:58AM So when all of the past history is erased, will we all be able to hold -- RaleighHokie15 08/15/2017 10:42AM Here's the problem...people now want history to reflect the values that ... -- vthhhi 08/15/2017 10:04AM Sorry, but you've bought into the Lee hagiography -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 11:30AM You must of read something different than I did... -- vthhhi 08/15/2017 1:24PM Washington's strategy is known as "army-in-being" -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 1:43PM Since this discussion started with how things were 150 years ago... -- vthhhi 08/15/2017 2:06PM Add a statue of Lee giving his sword to Grant. Plus, one of Nat Turner or -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 2:41PM You really think all Virginians thought Scott was a traitor? -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 2:20PM I'm ashamed of plenty of stupid things I did when I was younger -- Beerman 08/15/2017 10:46AM I don't want to talk get into a semantics debate but no I'm not ashamed of -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 2:08PM Yes, of course they should be allowed. -- Beerman 08/15/2017 3:11PM Yeah, I imagine a LOT of folks are just screaming "YOU'RE NOT HELPING" -- Nova Hokie 95 08/15/2017 3:18PM Yes, of course they should be allowed. ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 2:16PM Lee chose to side with a state that promoted treating people as property -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 10:23AM Loyalty to your state was viewed very differently in 1860 than it is today ** -- HokieJamie 08/15/2017 10:37AM Not really. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 11:36AM 6...whopping number there ** -- HokieJamie 08/15/2017 2:33PM There were 32,000 who enlisted in the Union Army. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 2:50PM So ~16% of the military age white population? -- HokieEngineer 08/15/2017 5:12PM Lee had no trouble suppressing Brown's raid. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 5:48PM I didn't think about the oath issue. However, when he resigned, did that -- HokieEngineer 08/15/2017 6:13PM Jefferson didn't really believe in secession, either -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 7:07PM There are so many contradictions in Jefferson's words/actions, I don't -- HokieEngineer 08/15/2017 7:40PM If Lee thought suppressing rebellion was intolerable, why was he at HF? -- Perfesser 08/16/2017 09:13AM His own writings indicate that he rejected the idea of forced abolition. -- HokieEngineer 08/16/2017 09:51AM Nobody was forcing abolition in 1861. -- Perfesser 08/16/2017 2:24PM I offer the statement that he was against "forced abolition" in response to -- HokieEngineer 08/16/2017 4:39PM So if MAJ Hasan (also of Arlington) had resigned prior to his rampage -- Perfesser 08/16/2017 6:24PM Absurd comment. What did the vast majority of Virginians do? ** -- RoswellGAHokie 08/15/2017 12:50PM "Vast majority"? About 40% of the whites remained loyal -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 12:57PM Not everyone in WV was loyal go look at the succession voting ** -- HokieJamie 08/15/2017 2:33PM And not everyone in VA was treasonous. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 2:54PM 30% of VA was black in 1860? ** -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 1:54PM 31% were _slaves_, per US Census -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 2:13PM I'm not a history expert. That's more than I would've guessed. Blacks are -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 2:53PM Migration to the north, coupled with immigration from elsewhere -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 2:58PM The Native Americans got decimated. Only .2% left in VA now. ** -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 3:03PM There weren't that many anywhere east of the Miss. River by 1861 -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 3:05PM I appreciate your insight. Your name seems apropos. Hopefully, your stats -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 3:49PM As accurate as the US Census -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 3:57PM I wasn't just thinking about stats but your opinions about Generals. You -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 4:24PM Well, I have a PhD in military history and teach it. ** -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 4:32PM I didn't want to ask but that's what I figured. Thanks again for your input ** -- Hoakie82 08/15/2017 4:36PM And others want to ignore history beyond the Civil War -- Nova Hokie 95 08/15/2017 10:21AM Exactly. It's not about Lee, Jackson, or anyone else. It's about the -- reestuart 08/15/2017 10:47AM It's the most important thing to remember. Most of these statues were -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:34AM Do you three seriously believe that the PURPOSE of erecting these statues -- DonHo-kieHi 08/15/2017 11:22AM It is 100% why they were erected. There's a reason all of these -- reestuart 08/15/2017 12:54PM Wasnt the Lee statue 1800's? (Yes) ** -- 48zip 08/15/2017 10:19PM In C-ville? It wasn't completed until 1924. -- reestuart 08/16/2017 08:36AM My bad. I was thinking about the RVA/Monument Ave one -- 48zip 08/16/2017 08:54AM Why are there no monuments to Scott or Washington on Monument Avenue? -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 11:42AM Matthew Fontaine Maury (tried to end slavery, was almost 1st prez of VT) -- 48zip 08/15/2017 4:11PM And served in the CSN. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 4:31PM I fail to see a comparison. Alum is irrelevant here. -- 48zip 08/15/2017 7:23PM Then why serve in the military of a nation committed to preserving slavery? -- Perfesser 08/16/2017 09:18AM Good question. I don't know. I do know that the Maury statue is considered -- 48zip 08/16/2017 09:22AM Do some research on when and why they were erected. ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 11:23AM You should do some research on how much ... -- vthhhi 08/15/2017 11:38AM In fact I did take his class. And grew up in Virginia. And have read -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 11:47AM "After the war" is the important aspect -- Nova Hokie 95 08/15/2017 11:45AM So where's Washington's statue on Monument Avenue? ** -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 11:43AM Its in the Rotunda ** -- 48zip 08/15/2017 8:11PM Out of sight -- no racial intimidation at all in Monument Ave, right? ** -- Perfesser 08/16/2017 09:20AM Richmond was the Capital of the Confederacy, a legacy of which they are -- DonHo-kieHi 08/15/2017 12:34PM BTW, I think the statues as stickingit to eh blacks isn't accurate either -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 12:51PM And just as Jim Crow was dawning .... ** -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 12:52PM Do you think that the South was in a position to erect statues in, say, -- Coach McGuirk 08/15/2017 1:50PM Given that Lee himself publicly opposed monuments to the Confedercy, no. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 2:11PM Like most subjects -- RTFC 08/15/2017 3:16PM Scott has monument in NYC that was done before any of those in the south -- DonHo-kieHi 08/15/2017 2:54PM Would you be okay with a monument to Major Hassan at Fort Hood? -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 3:03PM Well, evidently Richmond just wanted to stick to all the uppity Black folks -- DonHo-kieHi 08/15/2017 4:04PM Where did I say it should be torn down? -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 4:16PM Did the Irish erect statues of Cromwell? -- Coach McGuirk 08/15/2017 2:26PM They do -- in Ulster. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 2:44PM You don't have a problem with a statue of Lee in Gettysburg? -- Coach McGuirk 08/15/2017 3:08PM I have a problem with the statue in Cville -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 3:18PM So start a committee, raise some money and commission a statue -- DonHo-kieHi 08/15/2017 3:56PM What you propose is fine on private property. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 3:59PM Nope, they couldn't vote. Thats a bad part of our history as well so should -- DonHo-kieHi 08/15/2017 4:11PM They could vote (15th Amendment). They weren't allowed to. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 4:20PM That is true as well -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 1:41PM Was Arthur Ashe known for fighting to keep white slavery legal? ** -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 12:48PM You asked, I answer. -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 12:41PM Interesting opinion but no real facts there. We'll have to agree to -- DonHo-kieHi 08/15/2017 12:58PM Read Blight's book for the facts -- plenty of footnotes there for you -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 1:03PM I think you are overlooking the tenuous nature of the "united" part of the -- Coach McGuirk 08/15/2017 2:01PM Again, why celebrate these specific individuals? -- Perfesser 08/15/2017 2:31PM I agree with your first statement--as long as the citizens of the -- HokieEngineer 08/15/2017 11:18AM Damn people being imperfect. ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 11:22AM That's what I was trying to get at. -- HokieEngineer 08/15/2017 11:31AM Yeah, I was agreeing you. All humans are imperfect including the founders. -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 11:44AM This seems to be the way it is. ** -- AtlantaHokie 08/15/2017 10:07AM Weren't these specific statues put up in the Jim Crow era to intimidate? -- Nova Hokie 95 08/15/2017 09:56AM Where is your information that these statues were put up to "intimidate"?? -- DonHo-kieHi 08/15/2017 12:12PM It's in a number of articles -- Nova Hokie 95 08/15/2017 12:28PM Please keep repeating this. ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:35AM Lee's the target now. Washington & Jefferson will be the targets in 5 years -- RoswellGAHokie 08/15/2017 09:53AM Yep. Many of the -- VTUD 08/15/2017 10:10AM The craziness ends when they stop having great arguments. ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:36AM Who is "they"? the perfect or imperfect?** -- RTFC 08/15/2017 11:59AM Great arguments are in the eye of the beholder ** -- HokieJamie 08/15/2017 10:38AM Of course, but seems to me the anti-statue folks have the better of it in -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:41AM Fine that's your opinion. Doesn't make it right or wrong, its an opinion -- HokieJamie 08/15/2017 10:47AM If it's my opinion, it's right. And, yes, I'm aware the battle will move on -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:57AM Many of the founders... -- Dean Wormer 08/15/2017 09:40AM Over? Did you say over? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? ** -- WestyHokie 08/15/2017 09:55AM I agree with all of that, but let's not confuse facts with the truth -- USN_Hokie 08/15/2017 09:53AM So was Lee ** -- MAHokie69 08/15/2017 09:59AM Read what I wrote. -- USN_Hokie 08/15/2017 10:05AM Odd as it seems, Lee was an abolitionist -- Monk of McBride 08/15/2017 10:34AM Let me retract a little bit -- Monk of McBride 08/15/2017 10:58AM I agree "he was just a man with plenty of flaws, but aren't we all? -- HokiesDiver 08/15/2017 4:12PM Like a lot of politicians he said what he needed to say at the time -- RTFC 08/15/2017 12:09PM His army also confiscated every black person it saw in PA in 1863 and sent -- HokieJamie 08/15/2017 11:07AM Oh come on please don't keep this facade up ** -- HokieJamie 08/15/2017 10:48AM Well... -- MAHokie69 08/15/2017 10:33AM Don't fault me for your own misinterpretations. -- USN_Hokie 08/15/2017 12:27PM This is what I wonder about ** -- WestyHokie 08/15/2017 09:56AM To me, a Lee statue and a TJ one are different -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 09:30AM "a time where wealthy white guys owned slaves" False. -- USN_Hokie 08/15/2017 10:01AM Did I say every wealthy white guy owned slaves? ** -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 10:05AM That interpretation reduces your comment to something meaningless -- USN_Hokie 08/15/2017 12:19PM You think the late 18th and late 19th centuries were identical societies?** -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 12:33PM Yeah not sure how you can say it was not a time when wealthy white guys -- AbsolutVT03 08/15/2017 10:15AM He argues like my wife does -- statmanfromHCyrs 08/15/2017 10:14AM He didn't "betray" the US...secession was a constitutional -- WestEndHokie39 08/15/2017 09:57AM It has been pretty well agreed to that it is not a Constitutional right -- MAHokie69 08/15/2017 10:22AM Madison's writings seem to indicate the he felt the states were bound to -- HokieEngineer 08/15/2017 11:06AM LOL, the US disagreed ** -- Manbearpig 08/15/2017 10:06AM Nice job framing the difference. I agree -- MAHokie69 08/15/2017 09:56AM So did Lee ** -- WestEndHokie39 08/15/2017 09:57AM Name one. ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:29AM 30+ years of service in the US Army, plus Superintendent of West Point ** -- MAHokie69 08/15/2017 10:35AM That warrants a statue? Buddy of mine's great aunt who just passed had -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:37AM I never said it did -- MAHokie69 08/15/2017 10:43AM Same as in 30 years in the Army. Should have used 'similar' ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 10:56AM We shall settle it with teams of idiots- both carrying bats -- bigbadbird 08/15/2017 09:34AM One of the attorney general candidates in Virginia floated -- WestEndHokie39 08/15/2017 09:28AM It's very complicated. Too complicated for this forum. ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 09:23AM Context is critical. Important to note difference between combatants -- typed by ben 08/15/2017 09:20AM Most of the whiners prob don't pay for their educations -- bigbadbird 08/15/2017 09:16AM You forgot the "tic"..... ** -- Hokebury 08/15/2017 09:38AM How do you score a bat fight? to see who won and all ** -- bigbadbird 08/15/2017 09:50AM This has to be a troll ** -- CPRVHokie 08/15/2017 09:21AMTech Sideline is Presented By:
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